tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post7261297021146270673..comments2023-04-04T08:07:42.350-04:00Comments on SBC Plodder: Why all this complaining about NAMB?William Thorntonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12502242710436994507noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-20901618206160298012012-04-05T14:10:49.210-04:002012-04-05T14:10:49.210-04:00"He has said that from day one. In the cities..."He has said that from day one. In the cities NAMB is emphasizing, a local group consisting of pastors, the local association and a state convention rep choose where new churches will go and how many and what kind. Not NAMB"<br /><br />When these pastors get together with the others on the list, where does NAMB fit? <br /><br />Oh, they collect the money.<br /><br />Jon EstesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-48653138331234966912012-04-04T16:43:19.728-04:002012-04-04T16:43:19.728-04:00I don't have a problem with it being debated o...I don't have a problem with it being debated on blogs either, but I am uncomfortable with one entity head criticizing another one openly on a blog - especially when they are partnering with one another to do ministry. My point was that if they have such a close relationship Steve should be airing his concerns directly with NAMB rather than on blogs. That's not to say that Seminary D.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11588838898962876640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-23008992437481375492012-04-04T13:20:53.649-04:002012-04-04T13:20:53.649-04:00There is a legitimate discussion to be had concern...There is a legitimate discussion to be had concerning NAMB's strategy and reasonable, sincere, and dedicated SBCers are welcome to disagree about it. So, I have no problem writing about it and having folks disagree with me (and/or NAMB, since I am in agreement with them about it) here. <br /><br />I don't have any problem with Steve Lemke's disagreement although I am unsure of the William Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12502242710436994507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-14883919292819529032012-04-04T11:25:44.771-04:002012-04-04T11:25:44.771-04:00Steve,
I am rather shocked by your comments - yo...Steve, <br /><br />I am rather shocked by your comments - you of all people - the dean of a school that has a huge Church planting emphasis - would actually criticize NAMB for wanting to be more focused on Church Planting. I noticed in fact that the DayCenter partners with NAMB and in particular the Nehemiah Project, which unless I am mistaken is funded by NAMB.<br /><br />So it seems that your D.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11588838898962876640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-68309945356001826312012-04-03T08:28:55.404-04:002012-04-03T08:28:55.404-04:00Hi Steve,
I think part of the problem here is th...Hi Steve, <br /><br />I think part of the problem here is that when disagreements about funding and strategy occur, rather than having an honest conversation about them folks line up behind or in opposition to the personalities involved.<br /><br />I've already said that Emil Turner and everyone else involved here are dedicated servants of the Lord, so there's no need to affirm his, mine,William Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12502242710436994507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-61515129549189490522012-04-02T22:21:34.469-04:002012-04-02T22:21:34.469-04:00William,
I agree with you about 99 percent of the...William,<br /><br />I agree with you about 99 percent of the time, but I'm going to have to disagree with you about this issue. First of all, as Dave pointed out, Emil is by no means the only Baptist state executive complaining about these changes (I don't think your Samuel allusion is apt -- it's genuine expressions of concern by wise Christians, not "bleating"). Emil is Steve Lemkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00524288319535212137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-90432325172800312182012-04-02T19:39:57.985-04:002012-04-02T19:39:57.985-04:00Eric — Where did you hear NAMB wants to centralize...Eric — Where did you hear NAMB wants to centralize church planting? Ezell says state conventions are still NAMB’s partner of choice. And he wants churches in the driver’s seat with planting churches. He has said that from day one. In the cities NAMB is emphasizing, a local group consisting of pastors, the local association and a state convention rep choose where new churches will go and how many Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150174923813958662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-61792218397492515582012-04-02T18:17:49.703-04:002012-04-02T18:17:49.703-04:00Eric,
Congratulations on your CP giving increasi...Eric, <br /><br />Congratulations on your CP giving increasing over the past year as the recession has subsided. But, this article (http://bit.ly/yLa36b) shows that it increased a mere 1.52% over 2010's giving - not huge numbers. The problem is, of course, that these numbers aren't even keeping up with inflation, which in 2010 was 1.6% and in 2011 was 3.2%. Sure, it's better than mostD.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11588838898962876640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-45749767205402087442012-04-02T18:16:30.336-04:002012-04-02T18:16:30.336-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.D.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01029650945896881672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-52795078893152320482012-04-02T18:11:47.122-04:002012-04-02T18:11:47.122-04:00The SBC and her entities, want and need more money...The SBC and her entities, want and need more money to do all they want to do.<br /><br />The state conventions and their ministries, want and need more money to do all they want to do.<br /><br />The local church and their ministries, want and need more money to do all they want to do.<br /><br />All of these rely on, we the people in the pew. I need to discover how the bible speaks to this Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-11149282720034818402012-04-02T14:28:22.379-04:002012-04-02T14:28:22.379-04:00Dave, NAMB has been quite upfront about their stra...Dave, NAMB has been quite upfront about their strategy. I'd go back to Al Mohler's statement several years ago that if NAMB is going to be successful they must have control of their own budget. As it has been, states are accustomed to getting their slices of the pie. <br /><br />I'd ask you, can you justify NAMB being stuck with 100% of health insurance costs for personnel where they William Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12502242710436994507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-37359631994213310282012-04-02T14:24:29.168-04:002012-04-02T14:24:29.168-04:00Randy, I don't mind taking some shots on my ow...Randy, I don't mind taking some shots on my own blog from people who identify themselves and are civil. You are both. And, I might even be wrong every now and then.<br /><br />But I would request that you relax a bit with the language about criticism of your state convention leader. He has been quite plain, public, and outspoken about NAMB. I am merely restating his own criticisms and William Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12502242710436994507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-6707234691075758392012-04-02T14:24:10.498-04:002012-04-02T14:24:10.498-04:00D.R. -
Arkansas, unlike many other state conventi...D.R. -<br /><br />Arkansas, unlike many other state conventions, actually has seen a rise in CP giving among our churches. In addition, over the past number of years we have been increasing the overall percentage forwarded to Nashville. <br /><br />You appear to have no sense of the feelings of churches or Pastors in Arkansas concerning the work of our convention. Please do not speak of the 'Eric James Moffetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09937258771770079186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-73481774077439085292012-04-02T14:17:44.341-04:002012-04-02T14:17:44.341-04:00William-
I am not one for anonymous posts. It de...William- <br /><br />I am not one for anonymous posts. It defeats the opportunity for actual dialogue. <br /><br />I still think you are missing what Emil is saying here. There is a sense, and it is well deserved, that NAMB is simply proclaiming what is happening in the future with very little if any discussion on how the state convention partnerships will be handled. I can agree with you that Eric James Moffetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09937258771770079186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-15650111602595589012012-04-02T12:05:56.239-04:002012-04-02T12:05:56.239-04:00Randy,
I don't think anyone here is trying t...Randy, <br /><br />I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Dr. Turner is evil. That's quite overblown. What is being said is that he is wrong on this. And wrong to rip into NAMB because their new strategy doesn't directly benefit his state.<br /><br />I am in a small Church just like yours and frankly I think it is wrong to look to the state to solve your Evangelism problemsD.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11588838898962876640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-73643359090504158012012-04-02T11:56:03.055-04:002012-04-02T11:56:03.055-04:00Two comments:
1) NAMB's evangelism strategy i...Two comments:<br /><br />1) NAMB's evangelism strategy is the same strategy of the Early Church - Church planting. They shouldn't fund things like Evangelism Conferences (which by the way, are just suped-up Pastor's conferences). There are plenty of tools for Churches out there to do Evangelism and the State Conventions can help Churches do Evangelism with very little money. Much D.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11588838898962876640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-4541102601878193322012-04-02T11:42:08.016-04:002012-04-02T11:42:08.016-04:00As I stated earlier I want to avoid a blog battle,...As I stated earlier I want to avoid a blog battle, so I want to say my peace on a couple of points and then bow out. I am honestly disgusted when I see people who have no personal interaction with folks like Dr. Turner and they load up their clips of ammo and engage in friendly fire. Believe it or not, Dr. Turner is not some dark sith lord of the ASBC brewing up secret conspiriacies to suppress Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05578534383936338339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-73541856888416407732012-04-02T11:20:28.216-04:002012-04-02T11:20:28.216-04:00Yeah Fred I saw that too. Somebody should ask the ...Yeah Fred I saw that too. Somebody should ask the newspaper editor who wrote the story, works for Turner and moderates their website, why two comments supporting NAMB were removed and no others posted -- yet rhe comment section is still offered? Waiting for a comment against NAMB?Lee Fristnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-25781671716771848052012-04-02T11:16:11.503-04:002012-04-02T11:16:11.503-04:00William, the issues is pretty simple, the execs fe...William, the issues is pretty simple, the execs feel that NAMB is being kinda heavy-handed - no longer making agreements, but issuing dictates. <br /><br />That whole "top-down" thing some folks often "bleat" about (to use your word). <br /><br />The feeling is pretty widespread.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-14734109268153874352012-04-02T11:12:43.002-04:002012-04-02T11:12:43.002-04:00What! Denominational employees attempting to contr...What! Denominational employees attempting to control the conversation by deleting comments?<br /><br />Say it ain't so, bro...<br /><br />I'd say that if Emil Turner is confident of the stance and statements he is making, why not allow a conversation in a forum not as obscure as my blog?<br /><br />Don't we all favor openness and transparency?William Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12502242710436994507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-12674037811035914202012-04-02T11:10:59.228-04:002012-04-02T11:10:59.228-04:00As usual, your plodding pace has noticed some of o...As usual, your plodding pace has noticed some of our Baptist inconsistencies. I think there's a simple solution to this Arkansas mess: get your state convention to vote in session to reduce the percentage forwarded on and use that money to fund state convention jobs. <br /><br />Wait, what's that? Churches in the state conventions don't want to see more money kept in state? They want Josh Collinshttp://nycdisciples.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-37406617264096311362012-04-02T10:55:05.431-04:002012-04-02T10:55:05.431-04:00Oops. Too quick to publish. Trying again,
Mr. Th...Oops. Too quick to publish. Trying again,<br /><br /><br />Mr. Thornton,<br />One might also ask why the Arkansas paper deleted two pro-NAMB comments from their site soon after they were posted. Was it to give the impressiont readers were in agreement when it was clear all were not?Fred Johnsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-16492738649822609282012-04-02T10:52:05.786-04:002012-04-02T10:52:05.786-04:00Mr. Thornton,
One might also ask why the Arkansas ...Mr. Thornton,<br />One might also ask why the Arkansas paper deleted two pro-NAMB comments from their soon after they were posted. Was it to give the impression the first readersFred Johnsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-70511775902562221282012-04-02T10:31:12.237-04:002012-04-02T10:31:12.237-04:00Thanks for the comment Eric, and for putting your ...Thanks for the comment Eric, and for putting your name to it. <br /><br />The ASBC CEO's main objection may not be about the money, but he spends considerable time talking about it. <br /><br />Take the insurance, for example. Why shouldn't the ASBC pick up the health insurance for personnel that they provide 2/3 of the funding for? And even at that, NAMB is phasing in their change of William Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12502242710436994507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2294170801673753291.post-31299704931769235142012-04-02T10:02:03.138-04:002012-04-02T10:02:03.138-04:00I feel that you need to re-read the article to und...I feel that you need to re-read the article to understand Dr. Turner's complaints against NAMB. He makes it clear that the big issue, for Arkansas, is not the money. The article states twice that for what Arkansas receives from NAMB - we put in even more. <br /><br />A quote from the article - “In order to receive the $425,000 from NAMB, the ABSC is obligated to commit about $777,000 in fundsEric James Moffetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09937258771770079186noreply@blogger.com